Comments on: Are Advanced Placement / AP Courses Important in College Admissions?

By: Matthew

Matthew — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 02:11:49 +0000

Ice9,

I wanted to point you to a comment on one of the links in this article:

“My mistake in spelling it â€œcouncilorâ€ points out that I often learn from my mistakes no matter how painful!”

Spellcheck corrected that properly to “Counselor” when I edited/saved this entry to fix a link some time back. So, the sic remained next to the correction – apologies for missing that. I changed it back manually to avoid any confusion.

“… ask yourself: how can a teacher do a good job with AP-caliber students when she has 150 of them at once?”

It’s what college professors do every day.

You disapprove of quite a few things – why not start a blog?

By: Ice9

Ice9 — Sun, 25 Nov 2007 01:27:27 +0000

It is ‘counselor,’ so put your sic away–alright? (sic). Glad to hear you talked to AP students about…whatever…but have you taught any for any realistic length of time? Your self-absorbed blather (and high-ticket remora act) is central to what is wrong with our system now. Glad to know that Doctor Erica PhD says we should take the test. She is the champ of program-inflation and teach-to-the-test. Ask her if she is still teaching five sections of AP at once back at OHS, and ask yourself: how can a teacher do a good job with AP-caliber students when she has 150 of them at once?
I certainly hope we’re at the end of all that self-reliance/marketplace/competition crap. The noblitiy of the nation is vested in self-abnegation in public service, which is what teachers (and other folks, and not you) do best. Oh, and not Bill O’Reilly, who is a world-class hypocrite. Perlstein nailed it in “Tested”. This whole corrupt structure, and all the teat-squeezing sycophants, have done terrible damage to a great public institution. It’s disgraceful.

By: Matthew

Matthew — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:57:17 +0000

I have, Profe – throughout March I spoke to half a dozen AP classes about why they should/shouldn’t enroll in future APs and how they might approach the May tests. Far too many take AP classes for all the wrong reasons just as you have pointed out.

That’s the fault not of the students, but of the teachers and administrators who have twisted the school culture and misunderstand the value of AP, IB, Cambridge, Community College courses and additional summer coursework.

APs are most definitely not test-driven courses, though the vast majority of them are taught that way. It isn’t necessary. One can teach an AP course, even with an AP-approved curriculum, without teaching to the test – and the students can still score very well.

Speaking to your last point about the desirability of students in different circumstances, the short answer is yes, depending on the mission of the college. I think of it the same way I think of high-level sports, which is the most meritocratic institution we’ve got. Pardon the vignette…

I excelled in a sport that my high school didn’t offer. I did the best I could in this area, but I wasn’t world-class when compared to those who had training in established, competitive programs. Colleges didn’t look at me seriously – not because I didn’t have the “upside” potential, but because I wasn’t good enough at the time and there were many others who were. I was passed over and rightly so. I had to take a different path and 7 years later I was a professional in that sport. It worked out alright.

The point is that I was a less desirable applicant not because I didn’t have the potential, but because there were others who were already past that point. I don’t fault those schools for not recruiting me. I also don’t fault schools who want the best and most accomplished while others commit to potentially successful students.

By: Miss Profe

Miss Profe — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:17:33 +0000

Matt, have you talked recently with a group of high school students enrolled in AP courses? The majority will tell you that they’re doing it to impress college admissions officers, and thay they “look good” on the high school transcript. A very small percentage are doing it because of the learning value. Why do you think students are loading up on three to five AP course at one time? It’s not because they’re hungry for knowledge. And the burn-out and stress is incredible in the process.

Speaking of learning value: AP courses are test-driven courses. Depending on the merits one places in test-driven curriculum will depend on the value one places on AP courses.

With respect to AP courses and their impact on GPA, how many Ivy-League and Little Ivy colleges and universities would look at a student with a 2.0 GPA, but waive the GPA because the student enrolled in a glutton of AP courses? Are you able to provide examples?

Lastly, there are schools out there – many in fact – which do not offer AP courses and for a variety of reasons. Does that mean, therefore, that a student who has enrolled in the most challenging program offered by her school and has earned a very high GPA is viewed as a less desirable applicant than a student with a lower GPA and who has enrolled in AP courses?