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	<title>Comments on: Ed in &#8216;08 Makes Strange Bedfellows: Kanye West, Amanda Marcotte and Public Education</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/</link>
	<description>In Education for the Aughts, Matthew K. Tabor discusses issues in K-12 and higher education. He examines: college, law school &#38; medical school admissions; NCLB &#38; testing; teaching; teacher certification; parent &#38; community relations; school law; school boards; &#38; national education trends. Matthew is an admissions consultant and private educator. He writes out of Cooperstown, New York.</description>
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		<title>By: Pointless College Degrees &#171; Urban Angle</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2740</link>
		<dc:creator>Pointless College Degrees &#171; Urban Angle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-2740</guid>
		<description>[...] is a reason why Kanye West sold so many albums based on how useless college is. Its been mentioned before, but education leaders are so out of touch with black youth that they&#8217;ve appointed him [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is a reason why Kanye West sold so many albums based on how useless college is. Its been mentioned before, but education leaders are so out of touch with black youth that they&#8217;ve appointed him [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Spence</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2651</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Spence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-2651</guid>
		<description>Thursday I was searching for blogs related to Web Promotion and specifically add points reward program to my website and I found your related blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thursday I was searching for blogs related to Web Promotion and specifically add points reward program to my website and I found your related blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew K. Tabor</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2343</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew K. Tabor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 15:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-2343</guid>
		<description>I suspected that you wouldn&#039;t elaborate on that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspected that you wouldn&#8217;t elaborate on that one.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew K. Tabor</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2339</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew K. Tabor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 00:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-2339</guid>
		<description>Apologies, Ed, but I don&#039;t quite understand what you mean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies, Ed, but I don&#8217;t quite understand what you mean.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Darrell</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2338</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Darrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 00:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-2338</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;George Bush doesn&#039;t care about black people.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, he seems to have gotten one right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;George Bush doesn&#8217;t care about black people.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, he seems to have gotten one right.</p>
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		<title>By: Education for the Aughts Podcast: Celebrity Spokesmen in Education at www.matthewktabor.com : Education and School Issues, News and Analysis</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-2215</link>
		<dc:creator>Education for the Aughts Podcast: Celebrity Spokesmen in Education at www.matthewktabor.com : Education and School Issues, News and Analysis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-2215</guid>
		<description>[...] Ed in &#039;08 Makes Strange Bedfellows [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ed in &#8216;08 Makes Strange Bedfellows [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1394</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-1394</guid>
		<description>Zach,

I&#039;ll address your points with the numbers you used.

1) The simple fact that Kanye West addresses an issue shouldn&#039;t garner praise. When you ask, &quot;Isn&#039;t there some value in this?&quot; my answer is a simple, &quot;No.&quot;

To be blunt, you know the old saying about opinions - it&#039;s applicable here.

Just because someone has chosen to speak about an issue doesn&#039;t mean that their commentary is relevant, accurate, appropriate, etc. We listen to what they say and judge them on the merits of their argument; we don&#039;t give them participation or attendance awards. I have a hard time thinking that most educators [or the larger population] weighs the merits of West&#039;s arguments and doesn&#039;t find them lacking.

Your point that the intended population - which hasn&#039;t been clearly defined by Ed in &#039;08 or anyone else [and they can&#039;t because it would seriously damage their image] - is largely ignorant/out of touch is accurate. And that&#039;s even more reason to insist on a responsible spokesperson.

Keep in mind, Ed in &#039;08 is a non-partisan entity. West&#039;s criticisms are not only offensive and off-base, but to suggest they&#039;re anything close to non-partisan is a mistake.

2) I don&#039;t listen to Kanye West. I don&#039;t like his music. That doesn&#039;t mean he&#039;s not a talented artist - he is, it&#039;s just not art that I respect or enjoy.

I don&#039;t listen to classical music regularly, but in no way would I suggest that its practitioners past and present aren&#039;t incredible artists. Same with The Beatles - they aren&#039;t for me, but to say their music isn&#039;t seminal or hugely important to the development of popular culture would be absurd.

I do listen to Southern rock frequently [ie. Lynyrd Skynyrd] - and I&#039;d never suggest that they&#039;re practitioners of high art. They aren&#039;t, but it&#039;s music I like. My writeup had nothing to do with evaluating West as an artist.

And, if you don&#039;t think we judge actors by what they say or do in movies, take a look at Mary Carey&#039;s gubernatorial campaign. Her CV popped up frequently as did Jesse Ventura&#039;s - sometimes the CV is too much, in Ventura&#039;s case it didn&#039;t factor in too strongly because he overshadowed it with merit-based policy arguments that appealed to voters.

3) It&#039;s a sad state of affairs when we&#039;re complacent with this type of equivalence defining public policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zach,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll address your points with the numbers you used.</p>
<p>1) The simple fact that Kanye West addresses an issue shouldn&#8217;t garner praise. When you ask, &#8220;Isn&#8217;t there some value in this?&#8221; my answer is a simple, &#8220;No.&#8221;</p>
<p>To be blunt, you know the old saying about opinions &#8211; it&#8217;s applicable here.</p>
<p>Just because someone has chosen to speak about an issue doesn&#8217;t mean that their commentary is relevant, accurate, appropriate, etc. We listen to what they say and judge them on the merits of their argument; we don&#8217;t give them participation or attendance awards. I have a hard time thinking that most educators [or the larger population] weighs the merits of West&#8217;s arguments and doesn&#8217;t find them lacking.</p>
<p>Your point that the intended population &#8211; which hasn&#8217;t been clearly defined by Ed in &#8216;08 or anyone else [and they can't because it would seriously damage their image] &#8211; is largely ignorant/out of touch is accurate. And that&#8217;s even more reason to insist on a responsible spokesperson.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, Ed in &#8216;08 is a non-partisan entity. West&#8217;s criticisms are not only offensive and off-base, but to suggest they&#8217;re anything close to non-partisan is a mistake.</p>
<p>2) I don&#8217;t listen to Kanye West. I don&#8217;t like his music. That doesn&#8217;t mean he&#8217;s not a talented artist &#8211; he is, it&#8217;s just not art that I respect or enjoy.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t listen to classical music regularly, but in no way would I suggest that its practitioners past and present aren&#8217;t incredible artists. Same with The Beatles &#8211; they aren&#8217;t for me, but to say their music isn&#8217;t seminal or hugely important to the development of popular culture would be absurd.</p>
<p>I do listen to Southern rock frequently [ie. Lynyrd Skynyrd] &#8211; and I&#8217;d never suggest that they&#8217;re practitioners of high art. They aren&#8217;t, but it&#8217;s music I like. My writeup had nothing to do with evaluating West as an artist.</p>
<p>And, if you don&#8217;t think we judge actors by what they say or do in movies, take a look at Mary Carey&#8217;s gubernatorial campaign. Her CV popped up frequently as did Jesse Ventura&#8217;s &#8211; sometimes the CV is too much, in Ventura&#8217;s case it didn&#8217;t factor in too strongly because he overshadowed it with merit-based policy arguments that appealed to voters.</p>
<p>3) It&#8217;s a sad state of affairs when we&#8217;re complacent with this type of equivalence defining public policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1393</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-1393</guid>
		<description>Troy,

Thanks for the follow up - interesting marketing analysis.

The analysis is simple tallying, though. Myspace friends, youtube views, etc. measure nothing of the penetration of the Ed in &#039;08 campaign. Admittedly, this isn&#039;t easy to measure, but newsletter signups, orders for kits, myspace friends, etc. don&#039;t show that Ed in &#039;08 has had any impact whatsoever. They just show that the social media campaign has garnered a click and 15 seconds of a user&#039;s time.

Statistics from digg and other social media sites tend to show that an &#039;action-rate&#039; is very, very low with social media and there&#039;s nothing to suggest that Ed in &#039;08s penetration is any better.

The case study&#039;s commentary on the Ed in &#039;08 logo design is right on - it&#039;s an excellent logo to go along with an attractive design theme. Whoever put that element together deserves some praise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Troy,</p>
<p>Thanks for the follow up &#8211; interesting marketing analysis.</p>
<p>The analysis is simple tallying, though. Myspace friends, youtube views, etc. measure nothing of the penetration of the Ed in &#8216;08 campaign. Admittedly, this isn&#8217;t easy to measure, but newsletter signups, orders for kits, myspace friends, etc. don&#8217;t show that Ed in &#8216;08 has had any impact whatsoever. They just show that the social media campaign has garnered a click and 15 seconds of a user&#8217;s time.</p>
<p>Statistics from digg and other social media sites tend to show that an &#8216;action-rate&#8217; is very, very low with social media and there&#8217;s nothing to suggest that Ed in &#8217;08s penetration is any better.</p>
<p>The case study&#8217;s commentary on the Ed in &#8216;08 logo design is right on &#8211; it&#8217;s an excellent logo to go along with an attractive design theme. Whoever put that element together deserves some praise.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1390</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-1390</guid>
		<description>While I see your point about the problems with Kanye, I still see him as someone politically conscious and appropriate for the position. As a former teacher in a high-need, low-income school, I really think that attacking Kanye is missing the larger point.

Here&#039;s my reasoning:
1) At least Kanye talks about George Bush. Regardless of what he says, at least it is on his radar. Isn&#039;t there some value in this? Especially when his audience base probably consists of many people out of touch with politics at all? And it&#039;s not like Bush shouldn&#039;t be criticized...

2) The objectionable lyrics in his songs shouldn&#039;t be used against him. He&#039;s a rapper. That&#039;s how he makes his money. So if he swears or is degrading, just don&#039;t listen. I&#039;m pretty sure a fair amount of his lines are meant to be ironic - similar to someone like Eminem. We don&#039;t judge film actors based on what they say during a movie - should we be so quick to judge rappers?

3) He is a role-model. You can argue about whether he should be or not, but the fact remains that he definitely is. He will make people listen better than Dr. Thomas Sowell.

Regardless, I enjoyed your thoughts and attention to the issue. I think it deserves debate; I just come out on the other side, I think. At least for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I see your point about the problems with Kanye, I still see him as someone politically conscious and appropriate for the position. As a former teacher in a high-need, low-income school, I really think that attacking Kanye is missing the larger point.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my reasoning:<br />
1) At least Kanye talks about George Bush. Regardless of what he says, at least it is on his radar. Isn&#8217;t there some value in this? Especially when his audience base probably consists of many people out of touch with politics at all? And it&#8217;s not like Bush shouldn&#8217;t be criticized&#8230;</p>
<p>2) The objectionable lyrics in his songs shouldn&#8217;t be used against him. He&#8217;s a rapper. That&#8217;s how he makes his money. So if he swears or is degrading, just don&#8217;t listen. I&#8217;m pretty sure a fair amount of his lines are meant to be ironic &#8211; similar to someone like Eminem. We don&#8217;t judge film actors based on what they say during a movie &#8211; should we be so quick to judge rappers?</p>
<p>3) He is a role-model. You can argue about whether he should be or not, but the fact remains that he definitely is. He will make people listen better than Dr. Thomas Sowell.</p>
<p>Regardless, I enjoyed your thoughts and attention to the issue. I think it deserves debate; I just come out on the other side, I think. At least for now.</p>
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		<title>By: Troy</title>
		<link>http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/comment-page-1/#comment-1389</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.matthewktabor.com/2007/09/13/ed-in-08-makes-strange-bedfellows-kanye-west-amanda-marcotte-and-public-education/#comment-1389</guid>
		<description>A bit of follow up...

The Direct Marketing Association of Washington (www.dmaw.org) is holding a conference in the coming weeks surrounding the subject of marketing in the era of &quot;New Media&quot; (e.g., blogging, social networks, wikis&#039;s, user-generated video, twiiter, etc.)  one of their speakers is Colin Moffet of Mindshare (www.mindshare.net), the Marketing/PR firm behind the Ed in &#039;08 campaign.

Geoff Livingston&#039;s blog &quot;The Buzz Bin&quot; (www.livingstonbuzz.com), posted this (http://tinyurl.com/2cm66e) information today as a case study on the effectiveness of using social media as a marketing tool.  Geoff is neither advocate, nor detractor of Ed in &#039;08, but merely presents it as a case study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit of follow up&#8230;</p>
<p>The Direct Marketing Association of Washington (www.dmaw.org) is holding a conference in the coming weeks surrounding the subject of marketing in the era of &#8220;New Media&#8221; (e.g., blogging, social networks, wikis&#8217;s, user-generated video, twiiter, etc.)  one of their speakers is Colin Moffet of Mindshare (www.mindshare.net), the Marketing/PR firm behind the Ed in &#8216;08 campaign.</p>
<p>Geoff Livingston&#8217;s blog &#8220;The Buzz Bin&#8221; (www.livingstonbuzz.com), posted this (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/2cm66e" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2cm66e</a>) information today as a case study on the effectiveness of using social media as a marketing tool.  Geoff is neither advocate, nor detractor of Ed in &#8216;08, but merely presents it as a case study.</p>
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